How to trust your future self. The Asian Mental Health Podcast Episode 10

 

 

Our co-host and resident psychology student Marcus shares ideas on combating stressful workload paralysis while leading an academically-driven lifestyle, and why pulling an all-nighter is never a good choice.

The transcript is available below.

Help destigmatise mental health conversations in Asian communities by downloading this episode on your favourite app and sharing it with your friends and family.

We’d love to hear your thoughts and ideas about Asian mental health. Find us online at ⁠@justshapesandsounds⁠ or ⁠justshapesandsounds.com⁠

This podcast is supported by the Victorian Department of Health via the Diverse Communities Program. All information provided is general information only and should not be used in lieu of professional advice.

 

Transcript:

 

Shapes and Sounds acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the lands on which we’re recording and connecting with you from, the Wurundjeri Woi-wurrung people of the Kulin Nation and we pay our respects to Elders past and present.

Oscar: Hey, Asami.

Asami: Hi, Oscar.

Oscar: So last season, we had a really busy recording week. Like, we were locked in the whole day, every day for, like, a week. It was pretty intense. You have to be switched on all the time, right? So, like, by the end of the third day, I was exhausted. I don't know about you Asami.

Asami: Even day one.

Oscar: Yeah. Day one. Yeah, even day one. We were all exhausted. I went home, and by day three, I was just completely asleep by, like, 8 p.m., like I was not making it. I come in the next day and I'm like, did you guys just go straight to sleep last night? Like, yeah, you guys just go straight to bed, And you were like, yeah, like, of course, what else would I do? And then Marcus just comes in, he goes, no, I like studied when I got home and like that just I couldn't even conceive of studying when I had gone home. Like, I just couldn't believe it. But Marcus always seems to be, like, so organized. And on top of it all, I don't know how he does it.

Asami: Yeah. And I would add to that, like, it's not just that he's organized and efficient, but he's really well-rounded, like creative and interesting and like, likes a lot of really interesting music. And he's also just lovely to be around too. You know, it's not like just efficiency but just wonderful to spend time with. And it's like, how does he do it all?

Oscar: Well, let's ask him.

MX - AMH theme

Asami: Hi, Marcus. 

Marcus: Hello.

Asami: Are you ready for this episode?

Marcus: No. I'm not. Definitely not.

Asami: This episode is all about you, Marcus, and I'm. I'm honestly so excited for this episode. Okay.

Marcus: Oh my God. Too many expectations for me.

Asami: Okay. So everyone that's tuning in, in season two, we really had this idea that we would ask Marcus, like, why are you so well, like, what on earth do you do? And the reason why we want to do this is, you know, like, it's not just about hearing from you, Marcus, and what you do, but maybe this conversation offers other people some ideas or like, some interesting insights about how they might like to take care of their mental health as well. 

Marus: Yep.

Asami: And that's really all about destigmatising mental health within Asian communities. Like you are an Asian person doing the thing, taking care of yourself. And we want to know the nitty gritty of that.

Marcus: Okay.

MX in - Reel Two Reel

Asami: So I think we should start with this. There's a lot, a lot of mental health content on the internet, right? And I would say like as a clinician, a lot of it is good, but it can miss the mark a lot. And the reason why that is is like for example, you yourself might not be doing so well, but you're consuming this mental health content online. And that could actually be coming from someone that's experiencing like a lot of wellness in their life at the moment. It's important to know where you're located within a big spectrum of this so-called term mental health. And it gives context to your answers as well, Marcus. So imagine, like on a scale of 1 to 10, where ten is like your mental health is great. You're doing an amazing job at life, thriving. And one is really, really unwell.

Marcus: Okay.

Asami: Give us a number. Where do you sit?

Marcus: This is hard. So one is bad. Ten is good. Yeah. I want to say like. I don't know. A 3 or 4. Maybe four.

Asami: Four?

Marcus: Four.

Asami: Okay. 

Marcus: Let's do 3 or 4. Yeah.

Asami: Like three point five?

Marcus: Five. Yeah.

Marcus: Okay. I think 3.5.

Oscar: Get into decimal.

Asami: Point, like seven.

Marcus: Cause three makes. I don't know, I don't know if I qualify for three because three makes it sound like it's really bad but four, I don't know if it's enough. So maybe 3.

Marcus: 3.5 seems like. All right.

Asami: Tick 3.5. Yeah?

Marcus: Yep.

MX out

Asami: If we think about all that mental health content that's online, like one we spoke about the mental health continuum or spectrum, there's so many places where you could sit along that spectrum. But also I think it's important to know who that person is, that’s sharing that information. Like who could that info be relevant for? So Marcus, like as you think about what you're about to share. Who do you think that your story relates to? You know, like psychology students or like, I don't know.

Marcus: Maybe like just general uni students? If I have to think, like specifically, maybe just like if you're in uni trying to balance a lot of different things as well. Yeah. Like because for me, like, I don't like just like go to uni this day this day and work this day this day. It's kind of like everything every day. So, yeah, yeah. Just like I guess that, like, balancing different things at different points. Yeah.

Oscar: What about, like, type of person? Like what type of person are you and like, what would be a person who could relate in that sense?

Marcus: Not too extroverted. I guess my strategies aren't really like that social. Like there's a social element to it, but, like, not super extroverted. Yeah. Like focused on academics.

Oscar: Yeah. When you say focused on academics, this is just purely out of curiosity like you're studying psychology. Why did you choose psychology?

Marcus: Oh my god don’t ask me this. 

Asami: Cut cut cut! Okay.

Oscar: Can of worms I shouldn't have opened, I'm sorry guys.

Marcus: Okay. I have a like, practically why I ended up in this and then I have like a motivation kind of answer. 

Asami: Nice.

Marcus: So like in the year 12, like, I kind of didn't really know what I wanted to do, but like, I did PE for one of my subjects, and I really liked it. And I did pretty well. So my teacher was like, oh, like maybe going to physio or something. So I was like, oh yeah, like anatomy's pretty interesting. And like, I knew I wanted to go into some sort of allied health like helping profession. So I was like, oh, like I’ll just apply for physio. So I did, and I was like, mine was like the science and the physio like path thing. Whatever they do, at Melbourne. And then in first semester I was like looking at subjects to do. So I think I did like bio. Economics, geography and physics.

Oscar: So random.

Marcus: It was like.

Asami: It’s so Melbourne Uni right like you have to do everything.

Marcus: I Know.

Marcus: I didn't like any of them, but I did physics because I think there was a third year class that was on biomechanics. And like, I really liked biomechanics when I did it in year 12. So I was like, oh, like, I have to do physics that I could do that class. It was like foundation physics for the way it was, like year ten physics, first week, the teaching about like acceleration or something and I just couldn't understand acceleration. Like my friend was like trying to teach me the equation. And I was like, this doesn't make sense. Like, what do you like? Where does this equation come from?

Marcus: So now I dropped it and I was like, oh, and I had to pick something else. So I was like environmental science or psych. And I was like, psych is probably more like useful or like more interesting. And like, I've always had an interest in, like, people and like, behaviors and stuff, but I don't know why I just never thought of psych as a career, but I was like, oh, I'll just like do that unit. And then ever since, I'm just like, I've just stuck to psych.

Asami: Wow thanks to physics.

Marcus: Yeah. Like, I guess there is like personal motivations and I have reasons for it too. So.

Marcus: Okay. Yeah.

Asami: Can I ask you?

Oscar: Yeah are we allowed to ask you about it?

Marcus: If you want to go into that? I don't know, like, I think, like I was just always really interested in, like, knowing, like why people acted the way they were. And like, I actually kind of do remember why I like, decided not to, consider this a pathway. But like, I think when I was really young, like I did have a conversation with my mom once about it, and then she was like, no, it's really hard. You're gonna be having to like, put up with like other people's stuff all the time. Like if you're not able to, like, detach so like, it'll be really tough on you. So I was like, oh, okay. But then like, somehow, like, I don't know, doing med was fine for.

Marcus: So yeah.

Marcus: I don't know what the logic was there, but yeah, it's just like always been really interested in that. And I think studying. At uni has made it more interesting for me, like learning all the different parts of psych, like the biological aspects, and I just like as I kept going, it just got more and more interesting for me.

Asami: Yeah slowly like shifted all your subjects that way.

Marcus: Yeah yeah yeah.

Asami: But then why your first reaction. 

Oscar: You're like no.

Marcus: I don't know. Like I have like a cheesy answer but I don't want to really like say it because it's like, you know, like it's cheesy.

Asami: So can we hear it?

Oscar: Now now now I'm so curious. 

Marcus: That's for when I do my interviews.

Oscar: If I can I guess I'll save you that. I'll save you. Don’t worry that's the LinkedIn profile later.

Marcus: Yeah. Okay.

Asami: So what about this though in a very, very broad sense, what is it like your philosophy or your ethos when it comes to mental health?

Marcus: Okay, this is probably not going to make sense. And like not really have much substance to it, but like.

Asami: Okay, great preamble.

Marcus: I don't know, because, like, I kind of like just have a baseline level of stress all the time. So my mindset is like, if I'm going to stress about it all the time, then like, if I'm really stressed about it right now, I'll just like, leave it. Like my mindset is like everything is tomorrow's problem and eventually it will work out. If I'm just really, really stressed and really, really tired, there's no point in me, like studying and I keep going, like it will work itself out and yeah, eventually in the future, like I will do it. So it'll be fine.

Asami: As in like procrastinate?

Marcus: No.

Asami: I feel like that's the opposite of you.

Marcus: No, I don't know, like, I think it comes from a place of, like, trusting my future self. I don't think it's like procrastination, but it's like, say, for example, like, yeah, what have been two weeks ago now? Like I was at uni, it's like listening to this lecture and she had the thickest accent, just like couldn't understand what she was saying. And after class I was like, I have to like look over the notes now because, like, I'm not gonna have time to, like, revise it. Spent like three hours after class, like looking at it. And I still don't understand it. I was like sitting there, stressed. I was like, I'm never going to get this. But then I think I just had to, like, readjust my expectations for that specific time. It's like, okay, maybe in this time after class, all I'm going to focus on is just writing out the note, like, I'm not going, I'm not going to try and understand it yet. Like that's tomorrow's problem. Yeah. So I think it's it's like, I don't know, it's like putting trust in your future self that you'll just get the stuff done. Like if you focus on what you're doing now and like, just make sure like you're keeping yourself well in the given moment like later down the track, everything else will figure out itself.

Marcus: I don't know. If that makes sense.

Oscar: How do you know then when like when it's time to get something done? Like when is it time? Now that for the person who said my future self, oh, I need to do this later on, how do I know? It's like, oh, right now is the time that I'm supposed to be doing this.

Marcus: I feel like because like, I always feel stressed about it. So then like, it's not like I was just like, forget about it. Like I'll still think about it, but like the yeah, like, I just want to think about it like right now. Like I'll just be like, yeah, just get up and do something else. Or like sometimes if I'm tired, like, I'll just like, go lay in my bed. Like, whatever.

Asami: Do you think what you said before is like, you're breaking down the task into very tiny, actionable steps. You're like, I do not understand this lecture, so I'm just going to write out the notes and then the comprehension will come after

Marcus: I Guess. Yeah. Just like making it more manageable for me. Yeah, a different steps. That probably helps.

Asami: Like how you started with I'm always stressed. Like, foundationally, I'm just always stressed. I don't get that from you at all.

Marcus: I don't know, like, I feel like I've never not been stressed. Like, probably like just during the holidays when there's no uni, then I'm not stressed. But like this, this is this. Is really bad. But I told my friends I was like, every night when I go to bed, I go to bed and I think, oh my God, I have to do this again tomorrow.

Asami: Oh no, that's so dark.

Marcus: Oh. It's so dark. But it's like, I don't know, like, yeah, I, I stress all the time.

Asami: What this is, this is so unexpected.

Marcus: I don't know, maybe it's just because, like, I don't show it at work or something. 

Marcus: I don't know. I don't know if my friends can tell. Maybe they. No, actually, I think they can. Like, I think I told them about it.

Asami: What? But you maintain a sunny disposition.

Oscar: A sunny disposition, That's precisely what I would say, a sunny disposition.

MX Sting 7

Oscar: So you're clearly pretty, you know, academically disciplined. At least from my perspective. How do you, like, do that? In a healthy way? I think you kind of touched on a little bit, but, like, what I'm like, it's. It can be so stressful, like, as you said.

Marcus: Yeah, so I think it's hard because, like, I like to study. So it's different for someone who doesn't. Like when studying is a chore, then it feels so different. But then for me, it's like I enjoy it. So then, that's already so much of the mental struggle that I'm kind of overcoming, you know? 

Oscar: If that's the case, like what you just said, like. Do you have high expectations for yourself? Is that, like, why you're stressed or is it just like…

Marcus: Yeah it's yeah definitely expectations. And then like just knowing how competitive it is. It makes me stressed because it's just I don't know it's just like really sucks that like you constantly have to be competing against other people. Like even in Honours it's like, I don't know, I've only found that like when I got to others, the imposter syndrome got even worse because everyone is so smart. It's like, even if I get the good grades, it's like, no, everyone else is smarter. And I'm dumb. It's like, yeah, yeah, grades don't reflect that. So it's like, I don't know. It's like it's just so much harder when I'm in that situation and it's like, everyone's really nice and like, everyone's like willing to have a chat, but like, you just know they're trying to compete against you. Like you just you can just feel it. Yeah.

Oscar: Right. Yeah. It's just part of, like, the way that it's structured. It’s like there is a sort of ingrained competitive business about who's going to do the best or whatever it is.

Asami: And then progress to the next stage like the masters etc..

Oscar: Well, if you have these high expectations of yourself, and it’s quite stressful. Like how do you keep that from like like blowing up like how do you stay reasonable with yourself and avoid like the burnout situation or something like that?

Marcus: Recently I've been like keeping in mind this idea of short term sacrifice in my head. And this was after having a chat with one of my friends and honors, like. I don't know, like, I think like it's good. What helps me is to have something to look forward to. Like, say like the last past week had like I had to just, like, spend all my time on my assignment because I, didn't have time at all at uni, throughout the week or like this week. So like, I don't know, I just like keeping in mind that like, yeah, I'm just like sacrificing one weekend, but like once this period is done, then I can like go out on my weekends again. So yeah, I guess like there is that, like external motivation that helps me as well. Like, after this is done that I can do this.

Asami: Yeah and even like after the semester. Yeah. Right.

Marcus: Yeah.

Marcus: And it's also just like knowing that, if I don't put in my all when I'm like doing uni, then I might regret it and I'll get like a bad grade. I'm like, yeah, this is shit.

Asami: So like you would feel more stress then.

Marcus: Yeah.

Marcus: So it's like for my future self to feel good about myself, I need to do well and focus on, uni now.

Oscar: That's meta.

Asami: Thanks to my future self.

Marcus: Yeah. Yeah.

Asami: Okay. Well on that, like, because you, you know, like you're thinking about your future self, you are academically driven. As you shared, you are always stressed as well. Like, but how do you know when you've hit your limits?

Marcus: I think it's always like a physical thing that I get, like I get very. Like I guess, like, burnt out is like just the only way I can put it. Like, I just, like, have no energy and it's like I just can't focus or like, can't even, like, think about the assignment and like, I think something that I notice that I do myself as well when I'm really stressed is, because I like to keep like it's kind of like a to do list, but like for every day, like I kind of plan out my week every weekend before, like, right, like Monday, this, Tuesday this and stuff. When I get really stressed. A lot of the times I just sit there and stare at it like, but I don't do anything like I'll be like looking at it and I'll go to do my assignment and I'll open that tab again, like stare at it and I'll just like stress over that list. So like, I think that gets really bad when I'm really, really stressed and like, it just like is like a paralysing feeling for me.

And I think I realized this in year 12 because ore maybe it was 11, I can't remember. But like I remember every day after school, I would come home and then just sit in front of my laptop and like, look at my to do list. And I would sit there for an hour just doing nothing, just staring at my list and just like, keep repeating to myself, I have to do this, and I'll do this, I'll do this. I mean, tomorrow I have to do this. 

But then like throughout that period, like every time, like after the hour, I would like get up and go shower and I would come back. And then I would be fine. Like, I would just like, stop thinking about it. So I guess, like, my stress is very much tied to that list and like, it's triggered by, like that external kind of stimulus. So then once I really realised that, then I'm like, okay, like I just had to force myself to get up, like just force myself and like, close my laptop, go shower and come back and it’ll be fine. Oh, yeah. So it took a while to realise that, but yeah, I definitely still do that.

Marcus: Yeah. And then it'll be fine. Like, I wouldn't, like, be stressed or like that stressed anymore about it. Like it was. It's like out of sight, out of mind, kind of, you know.

Oscar: So you've processed it, you know, what's going to happen, so you don't need to think about it anymore. And the thing that was kind of off the block, I guess.

Marcus: Yeah. It's like, yeah, it's like something to, like, stop myself from thinking about it. Then it's just like gone.

Asami: But then, you actually do the task.

Marcus: And then I can do it. Then I'm not, like, stuck anymore.

Oscar: That's cool.

Marcus: But it was a very long period of time and I, I definitely still do that. So. Yeah.

MX in - The Road Less Travelled

Asami: I wonder what your brain was doing in that long hour. As you look at the list.

Marcus: It's just repeating to myself. All this stuff I have to do, like, is it's. Oh, yeah, it was so bad. So. But it's hard.

Asami: But not like scrolling in between that.

Marcus: No. Like, you know. I would just sit there. Yeah. I'd be, like, paralysed. Yeah.

Asami: Oh wow. For a moment I was like, oh, that sounds like quite nice. Like you're very present. We were just talking about social media before. You're like, you're not scrolling, but paralysed is not a good word.

Marcus: Yeah. 

MX out

[BREAK]

Asami: So, Marcus, you've given us like a really beautiful insight into you, and I'm surprised that you told me you’re stressed. I did not expect that to come out. But, we want to now get into the nitty gritty, you know, like, what do you actually do? Like what? What do you do on a daily basis? Oh, okay. The categories are like daily, weekly, monthly. I don't know. You can pick. What do you actually do to take care of your mental health?

Marcus: Yeah okay, maybe I’ll start with daily. I definitely have, like a routine or like a plan for the day before it happens. So like even stuff like if I have to go to uni like the night before, I'll check what train I’ll have to catch so that I know what time to leave and then like, going backwards to the time where you have to wake up and stuff.

Asami: Yeah.

Marcus: So I do that.

Asami: And also like being organised. How does that help your mental health. You know?

Marcus: I think it's like good for me if I can anticipate that I'll have a certain amount of time and to be able to do something. Even say like when I'm at uni and my friends like I am at uni as well, we'll catch up with like okay. Yeah. Like let me know what time last week I can see you and like let me know what time like you might have to go as well. Like I'm not trying to be like, so like, yeah, it's five. I'm sorry I have to go now, but like, it's like a rough idea of like. Maybe like two hours. I can, like, take a break from uni and, like, just, like, catch up with my friend or something. I think if I'm able to anticipate that and, like, know how much time I can spend on, like, my assignments or class, then like, I can relieve some stress in future situations because knowing that like I have something I need to do. But if I didn't get that done on that day, that would stress me out. So and especially because it's like everything is so like back to back and like honours is just like constantly the stuff and like work and everything. So it's like it just like has to stick to a schedule for it to work. Otherwise it's just like, yeah. 

Asami: Crumbles. 

Marcus: Yeah. Too much.

Asami: I like that. So yeah. I'm similar. Yeah. Everything for me is like, if it's not in the calendar, it doesn't actually happen.

Marcus: Yeah, I don't think I spoke about the specifics though, but wait, let me think. I always like don't do work after dinner. Like I think that's like a rule for me. Like even if it means pushing my dinner back, I just won't do anything after dinner. Like say like I'm studying at uni and I have to study till eight and not only get home to like nine, 9.30. So then like I'll have my dinner, but like I'll get everything done and then have dinner and then rest and nothing else. And recently I've also been doing like this thing where like because I have my iPad for like kind of for uni, but like kind of for other stuff as well.

Oscar: Are you an iPad kid?

Marcus: At night yeah.

Marcus: But like because I have like all of my tabs open on my laptop, like work and uni, like I've just like been trying to not go on my laptop after dinner. So like after dinner I just go on my iPad and that's like Netflix or like Disney Plus. I don't see the tabs because I know if I see the tabs, I'll open it and I will want to like read over something. So like it's like a physical separation thing that like helps. So like every night I try to do that.

Asami: I like that there's like a clear cut off and then you eat and then it's like Marcus time.

Marcus: Yeah, yeah yeah yeah yeah.

Asami: What about weekly?

Marcus: Basically, while I try to at least take half a day off, like on one of my weekends now, like it used to be like more, but like because of how much stuff there is for honours now, like I try to do at least half a day off.

MX in - Last Embers

Sometimes there'll be like going to the gym and then just chilling and doing nothing. Sometimes it'll be like going to the beach liketwo weeks ago. Oh, not this Sunday, the last Sunday. And it was really sunny. Yeah, I went to the beach and that was nice. Did nothing.

Asami: Do you swim at the beach?

Marcus: I didn't swim that. It was so cold. I dipped my feet in but I was way too cold. But the sun was really nice, so I did that. Just, like, laid there and didn't think about anything.

Asami: I like that.

Oscar: What about the beach is like, contributes to your mental healthiness.

Marcus: I think. Because it's like, so quiet and it's like, I can just go there and like. Enjoy the sun. First of all, I really like the warmth. Like I hate the cold. So, like, already. Like being under the sun and like. Being warm is like such a plus for me. But when it gets warm, I really, like, just like, floating in the water. Like, won't do anything. Like. Yeah, I just lay in the water and float for like, ten minutes and, like, I don't know, it's just like, good to, like, clear my mind that way and like. I don't know. To be honest, I don't really know what I like about it, but I like that it's a really nice way for me to relax physically. Yeah, yeah.

MX out

Asami: I get a water theme from Marcus now. Like the shower and the beach and the water.

Marcus: Yeah, yeah.

Asami: Yeah, I mean, yeah. Like, are you an Aquarius?

Marcus: No, no, I'm a fire sign, I’m a Sagittarius.

Asami: Me too.

Marcus: Yes we are. Yeah.

Oscar: Yeah I don't I'm, I think I'm a Virgo. Oh yeah. Yeah yeah I don't know what the what sign that is.

Marcus: I think that's.

Marcus: A water sign.

Oscar: Is that a water sign?

Marcus: Yeah, I think so. It's either water or air? I think it's a water sign though.

Oscar: Yeo, can we fact check that? Anyways.

Asami: Okay. All right.

Marcus: So yeah.

Oscar: Sidetrack. Anything else? Weekly.

Marcus: Weekly. Well again like the routine thing and yeah like usually I'll go out once. Usually there'll be like a birthday or something going on. So like something like that. But like I try to like prepare ahead say like on a Sunday. Like if there is a bit of stuff for uni that I can do, like it would just help me with the stress throughout the week, then I'll do it.

Asami: It makes me think. I also do similar things to you Marcus, but I think there are lots of people out there who love like these productivity hacks and things. But let us zoom out a bit. What about like more like longer term, just say in a time frame of either monthly or like yearly? Are there things like ritually that you bring into your life that help you to stay well?

Marcus: I don't think there's anything specific. Or like anything that really changes. I think I kind of just do the same thing all the time. I definitely like obviously have the summer off during like the summer months in that time like, yeah, there's no uni that I don't have to think about uni. And I think like because all of most of my stress is from uni. So it's like there's no stress and it's like I can just do whatever I want and like go out and like either way I'll be happy, like have good mental health. So. I don't know, it's just like a feeling like, do you guys get like, a feeling when it's summer? Like, 

Asami: Yes.

Oscar: No, no, it's like the same.

Marcus: It's like the happiness comes from within. It's like it's like so.

Asami: My soul is warmed.

Marcus: Like so it's like all of us, like such an overwhelming feeling. Like it's like, oh my God. Like, I'm so happy and like, I.

Oscar: Definitely.

Marcus: Like, it's like when the sun hits, it's like. It’s just a different feeling for me. So like, definitely over the summer months, going out as much, being under the sun as much as I can. Yeah. Is like my thing.

Oscar: Yeah, definitely the first hot wind. Oh like warm wind. Yeah. In spring. Yeah. That tells you that like it's probably getting warm now. Yeah. That's the best feeling. Yeah I guess so hyped.

Marcus: Best feeling ever.

Asami: And you feel like really free or something.

Oscar: Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's like, it's easy breezy now.

Marcus: Like. Yeah. Exactly. Like life is good again. Yeah. Yeah.

Asami: Right. Yeah. I feel like we got that on that weekend that you went to the beach.

Marcus: Yeah. It was like. I definitely felt that.

Asami: But yeah, it was like, oh my.

Marcus: God. Yeah.

Asami: Everything is going to be okay.

Marcus: Yeah yeah yeah yeah.

Marcus: It definitely felt it.

Asami: Okay. I like that, Marcus.

Oscar: Okay. What about. Unlike you. You're very academic, as we've been talking about. And there's obviously academic stretches where you have to, like, lock in. You've got exams. Yeah. Is that. Do you switch up your, like, style a bit? Like, do you do something different? Do you just take care of yourself or is it kind of the same?

Marcus: Um, I don't know, in terms of like, study, I like, I will go to the library like only during that period. Like, it's just like to focus and everything. I don't know, it's like really specific things, like. It's probably not relevant to anyone at all.

Asami: Yeah tell us. This is what we want to know.

Oscar: This is the juice.

Marcus: But like, so like because I live quite close to the Peninsula campus, like the Monash Peninsula campus and like, well, like before I got like the job at Monash, like, I didn't want to pay for parking at the carpark. So I would go to Bunnings next door because I was like, well, it's like three hour parking lot, I guess no one really checks.

Asami: Where is this going?

Oscar: I’m sorry what?

Marcus: So I would go in the morning, park at Bunnings, walk to the library, study and oh yeah, the parking at Monash ends at four by the way. So like at four I'm like okay, this is my break. My break is to move my car back to the carpark. So it's like scheduling little breaks like that in my study during those crunch times is what's helping me. And I think it's like, that's like a scheduled break where I can't really avoid, it's like I have to go and move my car. So it's like, yes, you have to take a break and I have to go for a little bit of a walk.

Oscar: So you can't feel guilty about having to move your car.

Marcus: Exactly. And then it's like then at night I don't have to walk that far. So.

Asami: That was very specific.

Marcus: That was the only example I can think of.

Oscar: I wonder if everyone's going to start adopting the strat now. Please don’t clog up the Bunnings carpark. Please.

Marcus: They're going to check next time I come. Like the car is parked here so long

Asami: But I appreciate the theme of that as well. It's very specific, but what you're saying is, like, I like to take forced breaks. Yeah.

Marcus: Force myself to take a break.

Marcus: Yeah, yeah.

Asami: Yeah. And it has to happen at a certain time. So then your body knows what's coming.

Marcus: Yep. Yeah. And I think like, I sleep in as well during those times. Like sleep is so important for me. Like I will never compromise. Sleep like never. I've never pulled an all nighter. And like, I don't think I've ever studied, past like ten. Like I just like, cannot do that. And like, I, I let's, like, will never do that. Like sleep is so important. Like I have to get at least like eight hours like obviously not always. Yeah. But like when I can like at least eight and it's like I have to sleep and like, I can sleep a lot like.

Asami: And you're a good sleeper.

Marcus: Yeah, I'm a good sleeper. So yeah, if I was, like, undisturbed, I could sleep forever. Like quite a genuinely I could.

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Asami: I think people that sleep well, really well, you know, generally. Yeah.

Marcus: I guess it makes sense. So, like, it gives you energy and everything. So.

Asami: And a clean brain to start the next day.

Marcus: Yeah yeah yeah, yeah.

Marcus: And also think about because like we learned in psych that like when you sleep you consolidate what you learned. So I'm like oh I'll just sleep I’ll know it tomorrow.

Oscar: So so that's a fact that like. Is it an actual thing?

Marcus: Yea. Oh does like something about consolidating memory during sleep whatever. Yeah. It's real.

Oscar: All right. That's going to be my explanation for why I overslept during my lectures. Yeah, it's because I was consolidating, knowledge.

Marcus: Yeah, yeah.

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Oscar: Alright I have one really strange random question that I want to throw in that I've been curious about since season one. So in season one, you talked about living a value driven life. Do you remember this? 

Marcus: Sort of.

Oscar: Okay, but. My question has always been, and I never got to ask you, what are some like values that you consider important and how do you follow these values? Or even find out that you had these values in the first place? I guess.

Marcus: This is the hard question.

Oscar: I know I'm throwing you a curveball here. I've kind of put it first, but that's okay.

Marcus: But it's I was like, how did I come?

Oscar: How do you come to the values?

Marcus: I come to this and like.

Oscar: What are your values? And having followed them, I guess. 

Marcus: I don't even know. Well, I guess my value is like, just do what's right for you now and then. It will work itself out in the future. I'm like that, I think is just like how I have come to approach like everything. Like it's like not a way of procrastinating for me. It's just like so that I don't stress myself out in a given situation and it's like it's not even necessary. Or it's like, not even necessary for me to stress myself out that way. Like, like it's important for me because it's like if I sit here and it's like I'm not really achieving anything, I might as well do it another day where I am pretty sure I will be able to get it done so then it’s like, might as well just like take some time and like watch Netflix or something, you know, like 

Asami: And just rest. Yeah. 

Marcus: Like there's.

Oscar: Yeah I think that's an interesting ethos to have. I feel like it's like a lot of people are very crunchy. I'm like a very crunchy person and I've gotta to get it done now. So I guess like taking away a bit of that stress and like having confidence in yourself to do the right thing later. That. Definitely. At least manages that sort of.

Marcus: Yeah.

Oscar: In the moment stress.

Marcus: I guess it's like this mindset only really works for me because I plan ahead though, like, you can't really be like the night before and it'd be like, yeah, I'll do it. Like tomorrow. Morning. Like, yeah.

Oscar: I guess so.

Marcus: I think because I plan ahead enough. So I give myself that time or like buffer to stress and like. Push it back I guess.

Asami: Cos you know how much time you would have.

Marcus: Yeah. I feel.

Asami: Like day.

Marcus: Yeah. And like, I don't know, like, I think it's weird because it's like everything always works out. Like I don't know how to, I don't know how to like say it in a different way, but like, just like the timing of everything will always work out, like, even like, say, like this week more during the podcast, I was like, oh my God, I'm going to lose so many days I’m not going to have time to do my assignment. Like I just have an essay on Thursday. But then, like I was thinking, I was like, wait, actually I have enough time, like some. So somehow it just works out when you put trust in yourself that it will and you plan ahead. Like, I think that's my two things.

Asami: I think that's a beautiful place to round off this episode. And Marcus, we just want to say thank you for shedding light on your experiences and what you do. Because honestly, we really think that you are a very, well, human. And I think what you highlighted there, like if we were to summarise, it's like trust that things will get done, like what you said essentially. Like if you want it, you will make time for it, it will get done. And then trust in that process as well. Try not to get like stuck in the stress of the moment and like sleep well have a shower.

Marcus: Sleep well. Yeah.

Oscar: I love the ocean.

Marcus: The ocean water signs. Yes. Yeah. So lots of sun. Yep.

Asami: So the time and maybe like, just to bring everyone else into this conversation now too, but just taking a moment to acknowledge that what works for Marcus doesn't necessarily work for everyone. Like, the schedule stuff, especially like, I think people can get so intense into feeling bad that they don't have a schedule, right? Yeah, yeah. But it's like, so remember, what Marcus shares may not be relevant to your life, but this episode might give you some ideas about all these different ideas and different strategies that you could try based on Marcus' story as well. So I wanted to put in like a reflective question, something about like the ocean.

Oscar: A reflective question about the ocean. What's your ocean?

Marcus: What?

Oscar: Genuinely, that is, that's my, that's a question I want to ask everyone. What's your version of the Marcus’ Ocean?

Marcus: Well that's beautiful.

Oscar: Oh, do you know what I mean? So, like. Yeah, like Marcus has the ocean. Yeah, you might have the ocean as well. I'm not saying that you kind of the ocean. You can have your ocean, but if it's not the ocean, what is it?

Marcus: Yeah, that's a good question.

Asami: Yeah. And so we would love to know.

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Asami: You can find us on socials @Justshapesandsounds. Obviously you will find this episode on your favorite streaming platform. Please make sure you download this episode too. And we really want you to join us in destigmatising and normalizing mental health conversations in Asian communities. So please share this episode with your networks. And yeah, let us know. Like what is your ocean?

Oscar: Honestly, what's your ocean? I'm looking at you guys right there. Now we can break the fourth wall because we have cameras. What is your ocean?

Asami: And we look forward to seeing you in our next episode. Yeah.

Marcus: Oh, yeah. 

This is a production from Shapes and Sounds. It’s hosted by Asami Koike, Marcus Lai and Oscar Abe, and produced by Yeo Choong. We’re proudly supported by the Victorian Department of Health’s Diverse Communities Program. All thoughts and ideas you hear are independently ours and our guests’.

 

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