The importance of self-reflection. The Asian Mental Health Podcast Episode 11

We nudge Oscar into the hot-seat and try to convince him that he’s creative. As our co-host and community engagement lead, he explains why bathing, constant learning and social connection is necessary for his well-being.

The transcript is available below.

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We’d love to hear your thoughts and ideas about Asian mental health. Find us online at ⁠@justshapesandsounds⁠ or ⁠justshapesandsounds.com⁠

This podcast is supported by the Victorian Department of Health via the Diverse Communities Program. All information provided is general information only and should not be used in lieu of professional advice.

Transcript:

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Shapes and Sounds acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the lands on which we’re recording and connecting with you from, the Wurundjeri Woi-wurrung people of the Kulin Nation and we pay our respects to Elders past and present.

Asami: Hi, Marcus. Hi, Oscar. 

Marcus: Hello.

Oscar: Hello. 

Asami: Would you say that there's a difference between creative people and non creative people and like how they experience the world?

Oscar: Yeah. I mean, I've been reading, a little bit of Rick Rubin's book, The Creative Act recently. And, he has a really interesting take on it. He says that everyone is inherently creative. And so, like, even if it's like, you know, you driving to  work and figure out how you're going to get there. That in itself is a creative act, he claims.

Marcus : Okay.

Asami: Yeah.

Marcus: I don't know, like I think I agree that everyone's innately creative. But I don't know if I agree with the example he gave, because choosing how you go to work that feels like just like autonomy to me. Like, oh yeah, today I'll catch the tram instead catching the trains. It's like choosing a path that's already there doesn't feel creative, like I feel like there's no process and like building the path itself, I don't know.

Asami: It makes me think of the creative process, you know, like, have you ever seen that graph? And it's like, I've got an idea and you kind of start in a neutral position and then it's like, oh, this is interesting. And then you fall into like a oh my God, this is the worst idea for the world. And I hate myself and I'm like the worst designer ever. And then you have to struggle and then you come out and then you're like, I did the thing. Yeah. I feel like the people that go through that are creative. I feel like that's a Oscar thing.

Marcus: Yeah.

Oscar: Maybe I'm perpetually stuck in the valley of despair.

Asami: Oh, yeah the valley of despair, that’s the term. I think that creatives experience the world differently. Like, people are innately creative, as Rick Rubin suggests. But I think, like these creatives, the ones that experience that valley of despair, I think that they experience the world differently and like, maybe like connect more with existential themes. And I would say then that has impacts on mental health. So to dive into this, we're gonna hot seat one of our very own creatives on the team. Oscar, it's you in the hot seat today.

Oscar: Noo0o0o

MX AMH theme

Oscar: Can't believe I could come up with Valley of Despair off the top of my head.

Marcus: That was good!

Asami: Well done.

Oscar: I was trying to remember the term and you're like, I was like, what is that? Oh, a valley.

Asami: Okay. So, Oscar, like we said, I think you're a really creative person. And what people might not know is that Oscar designed our amazing logo, as in, like, the Asian Mental Health Podcast logo. And there's a whole reel about it to write about.

Oscar: Yes, please watch it. Not of people watched it inside of it. I was getting sad about it

Asami: But you didn't highlight the bit where you went into the despair bit.

Marcus: The process

Oscar: We don’t have to go over that, so no one has to watch the messy part. Yeah, that was an interesting process. That was. Yeah, actually, that was one of the smoother processes of making stuff.

Asami: Yeah. I feel like it was hey, like, compared to some of the other stuff. But it was amazing. The end product is always amazing looking and like, I call you a creative, but do you agree? Like, is that how you experienced the world would you say.

Oscar: I guess I mean, I definitely think I'm a creative person. Like, I like making things and I really I've always been interested in like, how things work, and like, taking stuff apart, making them like, pull it, putting it back together, stuff like that. But I think I want to be clear, like, I'm definitely wouldn't classify myself as a creative, like I've got friends that are definitely creatives and, yeah, like it would be a disservice to them like that. Like there are people who dedicate their whole lives to, their craft. And I think in that way, I'm definitely not a creative, a much more varied type of person. I think I've got, like, a lot of stuff that I do. I think even my life view, is also just as varied. And I think because of that, I see the world in a very situational basis, which is kind of like, I'm not sure if that's like a creative thing or if it's just a me thing, I don't know. Yeah.

Asami: What do you mean? Like.

Oscar: Like, I think, you know, there's definitely a lot of creatives that I know that have, like, you know, they're always changing and they're always thinking about the world in different ways. Yeah, but I'm not sure if that's like an exclusive creative thing. Like being a creative means that you think like that. Or if it's just like that happens to be people that I like that I don't know.

Asami: I see what you mean. And we didn't touch on this, but tell everyone what you're studying as well.

Oscar: Oh, yeah. 

Asami: Coz I feel like that plays into.

Oscar: My creative. 

Marcus: Definitely.

Oscar: Definitely. Like, I, I study engineering, and so, I mean, everyone doesn't know what engineering even really means. I mean, to be honest, ask an engineer, and they don't know, but.

Asami: And it's like, broad, there can be so many kinds of engineers. 

Oscar: Specifically I do robotics. And, if you couldn't tell, it's not that much of a creative subject. I mean, there's definitely problem solving, which is arguably creative, but I think that, you know, there are limits to how things work. And it's not very a conceptual sort of industry. And in that way, it's not very much a creative endeavor. So I think, you know, not all my life has to do with, being a creative or creating, but definitely it's always been a big part of my life. Even the reason why I'm doing, engineering is, like, I like making things. I wanna see if I can make a robot. I think like that would be part of what initially sparked what I'm doing today. Yeah.

Marcus: That's so sounds pretty creative to me, though. If you're, like, making something and like going through that whole process. 

Oscar: Yeah, I guess.

Marcus: So. Like, is that sort of the way you like to sort of express your creativity, like through making things and like, why specifically like robots. Like why not like design. Like, why didn’t you stick with like design?

Oscar: This is like, am I going a tangent here?

Marcus: Tell us, tell us

Oscar: When I was like, much younger person in, like, early primary school or late primary school? Early high school. I had like this obsession with, like, the electric skateboard. Like the electric skateboard came out about that time, like the booster boards and things like that. And I was like, this thing is so cool. I need to figure out how that works. Like, it kind of just like, how does an electric say, like, you know what I mean? Like if I ask that to a normal person, like, I don't know, like, so I, I was like obsessed with it. I just like looked into all this stuff and I decided, you know what, I'm going to make one and stuff it. So I made one when I was in like, yeah, 8 or 9. 

Marcus: Oh, wow. 

Oscar: And so from there I kind of got really into just like making things that were like electronic systems. Not that it's that impressive, but people make computers. I decided to make a computer. And that also gives you a bit more knowledge about how computers work. I eventually tried to make a drone, and that's kind of where that, I hit, like, the brick wall. 

Asami: Yeah. 

Oscar: Drones are really complicated. I still don't know what I did wrong, but I've never been able to get it to fly properly. But, yes, I was into making robots for a while. I think I've just always been interested in how, like, mechanical things work and, like, how, I don't know, there's, like that sort of excitement about innovation that I really like and like actually helping people. That's always been really interesting to me. 

MX in - Made in Taiwan

Oscar: Then my obsession kind of, like, turned to, like, clothes. I interned at a custom sneaker maker, and they taught me how to use a sewing machine. Very high quality sewing machine that I was, like, turning on. Hopefully I didn't stuff them up, but. Yeah. Anyways, and then after that, I became really interested in how clothes work and, like, you know, how do people decide the shape of clothes and how does that work? Pattern making has always been my interest in that. So yeah, I've always kind of been making stuff, but the way that I express it changes, I guess. And I think that probably the reason why I chose robotics is just it's more pragmatic a view. It's pretty hard to make it like as a fashion designer. But on top of that, I have my qualms about the fashion industry and the ethicality of that as well. But yeah, ethicality, is that a word?

Asami: I think so, yeah. That's awesome. Oscar, and you have so many varying interests, and I love how they all kind of like, tie in together. Like the curiosity of how things are made is at the core of everything is just expressed differently. Right.

Marcus: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Asami: That's so interesting.

Marcus: Yeah.

MX out

Asami: Today we're going to ask you all these questions about you Oscar with all your varying interests, like how do you take care of your mental health? And I think for the listeners, it might offer some points of reference like, oh, what else could I do to take care of myself? What are some interesting strategies that someone like you adopts as well? Right. And we think that sharing what other people do is like a really nice way to normalize mental health conversations. You know, obviously, like your work isn't grounded in mental health. It is at shapes and sounds, but not your study. So then it's like for people like you, how do you take care of your mental health? I think the starting point that we did the same thing with Marcus's episode, like mental health is such a broad term, and there's a spectrum or a continuum, like from one being really, really unwell and not being able to take care of yourself all the way to ten, which could be like thriving. Just to give people a point of reference, where would you sit on that spectrum?

Oscar: Like if you take into account the last couple weeks and if you averaged it out, I think I'd probably be sitting at like a 5 or 6, I think.

Asami: 5.5?

Oscar: Okay.

Asami: Good good good. That's always good to know because that mental health continuum actually it's a thing that exists. And then different interventions are offered at different points along that continuum. So knowing that you're kind of at a steady place is good for everyone to know. Who would really relate to what you're saying? Like what kinds of people would you say that you speak to or you're connected with?

Oscar: Obviously I'm studying engineering, so engineering students out there, you probably relate to some of this stuff. I think more broadly, I guess people just students in general. I think like creatives as well. To an extent. I think mainly though, people who have like a lot of different interests, like, I think I'm a bit scatterbrained in that sense. And I think, like, I know other people out there like that. So probably people like that and maybe I guess I'm more on the extroverted side. So maybe more of an extroverted people, something like that.

Asami: Yeah, yeah. Are you an extrovert?

Oscar: Yeah, I'd say I'm an extrovert.

Marcus: I feel like you are, at least in comparison to me, I think.

Asami: Remember we have that the reflective dinner thing and then you I thought, this is so funny. This is like such a Oscar thing. But you like, oh I wonder what this song is. And then. Yeo was like, why don't you just go and ask the person what the song is? And you're like, no, I'd prefer to go home and like look through all my Spotify. For like three hours. 

Oscar: No, I'm not like fully extroverted. I think I definitely have like yeah I'm not into there's I'm extroverted inherently but I think I definitely have introverted tendencies like oh yeah. Yeah. I'm not like the pure extrovert or whatever. Yeah. Definitely not.

MX sting 5

Asami: Oscar, when it comes to your mental health, what would you say is your overarching ethos or philosophy in taking care of yourself?

Oscar: I think for me, self-reflection is kind of where it starts and ends. You know, sometimes you can't see the forest for the trees and especially for someone who's, like, always changing as I am, I think it's really important to take stock where you are and like, which way you're headed. 

Maybe the reason why I'm always changing is because I'm curious on a really, like, wide range of things. For me learning about new things is really important as well. It's like, when I'm take in new information, my understanding of everything changes as well, though, like, equally. It's always changing. Like, you don't really know what's right and what's wrong. It's like, I know that my current opinion on something is not going to be correct. Objectively, there's no way that with the amount of information I have now, I'm going to be correct. And I think it's really hard to be aware all the time of like, what you're doing. Like, everyone's so busy, you know, like, it's hard to be like also have that level of self-awareness to be like, oh yeah. Like, this is where I'm at. And this is all the reasons that I'm doing these certain things. Sometimes you just got to get stuff done, you know? And I think, like, without self-reflection, I don't know where I'd be. Yeah. Like, I think, you know, you can't really. You got to take a step back every so often, you know? 

My approach to self-care, because I'm very, like, always changing is always also varied. Like, sometimes structure is really important in my life, and that's the way that I take care of myself and stay healthy. But equally, sometimes spontaneity is the way that I stay healthy. Like I think I previously understood life as a balance, Like people always says that. Like, what does that actually mean? I always thought it meant that I had to sit right in the middle of the beam all the time. All the time. You know what I mean? It's like whoever can sit in the beam in the middle of the beam the best is winning. But in reality, I think I started to realize it's kind of like actually the motion of rocking back and forth. Like, who can, like, keep their balance the best, is this is more important. I don't know, like that's kind of how I see it nowadays. It's like, you know, some days you want to be more spontaneous. You know, you know, you can't like be doing the same thing all the time. Like, I think that's really important. But equally, sometimes you need some organization and like going back and forth between that has been like, you know, realizing that's like, okay, it's like, I don't know, that's been pretty important to me as well.

Asami: It's like your time frame is longer, right? Not like every single day. I've got to be in balance. But it's there periods during like during semester or something where I have to focus. Yeah. And then there's the summer and then you can relax.

Oscar: Exactly, exactly. And it's like, you know, there's not enough time in the day to be like, I need to tick off all of my, like, you know, I need to be eating, sleeping. Exercising, studying, doing a passion project. Getting enough time to relax all in one day. it's just, like. 

Marcus: Not possible.

Oscar: There's some people who I've met who somehow do that, but in for me, it doesn't work, you know, and I think, like, realizing that and just being okay with that and finding your own way to find balance. I think that's been pretty. That's important to me, I think at least. 

MX in - Last Odyssey

Oscar: I've always had projects on the backburner, but recently my approach to that has changed, a little bit. Because what happens is like when you get busy. So for me, it's like making clothes, like when you get busy, you don't have the time to make the clothes and you feel guilty about not having made the clothes. And then that guilt makes you not want to make the clothes, because when you do it, you feel guilty about how far back you are now. For maybe the last year or two years, I've really like every so often I try to do something and it just I feel bad about it or I can't get around to doing it and it just stacks up. And that's just like an extra stress that I just didn't want anymore. So like, I purposely chose like this year, like I'm not doing anything creative like I haven't made. Yeah, I haven't really made anything this year. And that's why like when you said the creative thing, I'm like, especially right now, I don't feel like a creative person that much. But I know that once I feel the motivation to start making stuff, that means that I'm probably ready to start making stuff again. But I don’t know, it’s hard, if you put too much internal pressure on it, it becomes really unpleasant and doesn’t help you, and in fact it kind of pulls away from your health.

MX out

Asami: Yeah, like I remember back when I used to make music, it's like there's like a time in your life where you have to experience the life, and then you don't make stuff in that time. And then there's a time when you're, like, looking back on that bit and then making the art that corresponds to that. And that's what I always felt. Yeah. So maybe it's like that I don't know. Yeah. Maybe you're doing the experiencing.

Oscar: I hope that's what's happening. So I can just imagine to myself I'm still creating in some way or not.

Asami: And you do a lot of design work for shapes and sounds. It's like, no, forget that to everyone. All our beautiful stuff is Oscar's doing.

Oscar: Thank you.

Asami: I see a long silence. Okay.

Marcus: Well you kind of touched on like the curiosity and then like being able to like sit with change and uncertainty, I guess. I'm kind of curious, with this reflection thing that you're talking about is that, like situational or do you like, reflect like, oh, every Sunday I'll like reflect and journal or something like, how does that sort of happen?

Oscar: Yeah, sometimes it's like I can manage to get a habit out of it and I'll do it somewhat like regularly, but I kind of just instinctively do it when I need it, like. I just naturally do that, I guess,  oh, it's time to figure out, where I'm at and just take stock. 

Asami: And do you, is it like you just think about it or you write it down or you do.

Oscar: Yeah. I mean, it's a lot of different things. Yeah. Actually we'll touch on it later.

Asami: Okay. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Save it for later. Save the juice. 

MX in - Lofi on the Bass

Oscar: Yeah I mean, if I had to answer the question about you know, what's my ethos to self-care generally I could sum it up as like always be learning, always be changing and always be self-reflecting or every so often or self-reflecting something that's for.

Asami: Wow. 

Marcus: That’s beautiful.

Asami: That’s like a t-shirt 

Oscar: Please don't make a T-shirt. 

Asami: I’ll make you design the T-shirt for Shapes and Sounds

Oscar: It's such an Etsy shirt.

MX out

[BREAK]

Asami: So Oscar, it was really nice to hear about your approach and your ethos. I like that it was summed up in a beautiful phrase as well. But I want to ask a more complicated question, and this one's really nuanced, so just take it however you feel like. But how would you say that you know your limits?

Oscar: I think generally like if the question is, when do I know when I need to self-reflect, it would be when my life starts getting disorganized. I think I'm usually relatively organized. I'm sometimes a bit lax on it. But I think I can tell when stuff gets chaotic. And that's usually when, like, I know it's probably time to like, rein stuff in and like, I don't know, check up on what's going on. Yeah. I don't know if that answers the question.

Marcus: So it's like a feeling or is it like other people around you kind of notice that?

Oscar: Sometimes other people notice before I do. I'm not like the most like I don't know in tune with it. But yeah, I definitely know like when I'm feeling like I'm like either really it's usually related to stress. Am I really stressed about what's going on? Am I stressed because I don't know what's going on? I think that's usually like, that's a definite sign that I've got to do something. It's like, yeah, I don't know what's going on. So I need to…

Marcus: Like no control of your life. It's like when you feel like you can’t control the life and have your life the way you want it to, like, have it sort of, like, pan out the way you want.

Oscar: Yeah, yeah.

Asami: And, like, disorganized, as in, like, you're falling behind on all the different tasks, like uni, like work, like everything's just. Yeah. So many deadlines have passed.

Oscar: Yeah.

Asami: Okay. What about like physically do you, do you get sick?

Oscar: Sometimes I get, like, this strange, like, feeling in my stomach. Like I don't feel motivated to eat. It's like, I, I'm definitely hungry sometimes, but I also can't tell if I'm hungry or if I'm not hungry.

Marcus: I get that too

Oscar: It's like a weird, like, hungry, not hungry feeling.

Marcus: I definitely get that too.

Oscar: Like, I'll eat anyways, but it's like, I don't know, I'm like, this is.

Marcus: Just like, no appetite.

Oscar: Yeah, it's like a strange appetite.

Marcus: Yeah, yeah, I totally get that because, you know, have people like, stress eat. I don't when I'm stressed, I don't eat.

Asami: Undereat. Is it like adrenaline?

Oscar: It's got to be some sort of chemical. Maybe it just happens. Like I don't have any like sort of.

Marcus: Exactly. And I love to eat. So.

Oscar: Yeah. Exactly. You know.

Marcus: I don't know why that doesn't make sense.

Asami: So then like that's a clear sign. Like something's up.

Oscar: I guess that's probably my sign.

Asami: Tell us the tangible actions, you know, like the things that you do on a, let's just say, daily basis, like we just said, you don't do things on a daily basis, but are there things that you do?

Oscar: Yeah. I mean, I still do things. I think to be clear, like I definitely do things for my mental health, but it's just not the same thing all the time. Do you know what I mean? Like some people are like, oh, I'll do this all the time. And that's how I know I'll keep in check. But, you know, I get bored of stuff, you know, like, I don't want to do the same thing every day. It gets grueling. I don't want to do that. So I decide in my self-reflection or like, this is the sort of stuff that I want to be doing to make sure that I'm okay. And that can be, you know, baths is the one that's like the most, common for me. Like, I'm Japanese, like bathing. I don't know, it's just, like, integrated into our culture. I was talking to my Japanese friend the other day. He put it really succinctly. He said, that even in the summer he takes a bath. I was like, that's a bit strange. Like, I don't really take baths in the summer that much. Like, it seems like, why would you want to get really hot and when it's already hot? Yeah, he said, it's the only time that I get to, like, really, sit with the day, you know? And I think that definitely resonated with me. I was like, oh, that's what I really like about baths is like, you just get time to really you don't do anything. There's nothing to do.

Marcus: So you don't do anything.

Oscar: I don't do anything. I mean, sometimes I listen to music, increasingly I watch YouTube and it's horrible and I. Yeah, you know, I shouldn't even introduce that. But most of the time. Yeah, I'm just sitting there, I just relax.

Asami: What about you, Marcus? Like I do something in the bath.

Marcus: I don't have baths.

Oscar: That’s like most Australians. 

Marcus: I don’t have a bath tub so.

Oscar: So many people look at me so weird for having a bath.

Asami: Well, I resonate with you because I physically, I bought a portable bath.

Marcus: Oh, wow.

Oscar: Okay, that's next level.

Asami: I just got sick of not having a bath in my life and I thought, this is, like, unspiritual.

Marcus: I don't think I could do that. It's just like, okay, wait. Question. Do you shower before you get in the bath?

Asami: Yes.

Marcus: Okay. Good. Because it’s like, you're just, like, soaking in the dirt. But do you shower after you come out of the bath as well?

Asami: A rinse.

Marcus: A rinse

Oscar: I don't do that. I’m not gonna lie

Asami: Because you’re clean

Marcus: But what what do you put in the water? Nothing. Just water. Salt.

Oscar: Just water. I mean, we have this. Actually, I really like, it. I don't know what the English name is. It's called, onsen no motto. It's just like this powder.

Asami: Oh, yeah.

Oscar: But I don't know why. Every time we go to Japan, someone buys it. And then we put it into the water and it turns it like a cool cloudy color. And it's nice on the skin. I don't know.

Asami: It's got all, like, the minerals and things.

Marcus: Okay. So like a bath salt kind of. 

Oscar: Have you. Have you been to the onsen?

Marcus: No I have not.

Oscar: I'm telling you, you will understand as soon as you go into an onsen. Like you understand all of this.

Marcus: Okay, I’ve just never had a bath 

Asami: You’re like I hate these conversations. Okay.

Oscar: Where were we at? 

Marcus: The things that you do.

Oscar: The things I do on a daily basis. Okay. Yes. Sometimes I go on for, like, walks. I got into meditation for a long time. Every so often. I still do that. Recently, I've been doing yoga. But most of the time, the one thing that definitely stays like constant is like at least speaking to someone every day, like just interaction is too important for me as a person. Like, yeah, I just, I need to talk to people every, every day, at least in some way or another, like online or in person. Doesn't really matter.

Asami: Oh yeah. That's what I was going to ask. Does it have to be in person or.

Oscar: No, I mean, every so often, like it can't be all online like, that just isn't great. But, I think it's hard, like, people have lots of schedules and different like to live in different places. So it's hard to catch up with everyone all the time, you know.

MX in - Kiri o koete

Marcus: Have you ever gone a day without talking to anyone though.

Oscar: Oh yeah

Marcus: What was that like

Oscar: Oh okay. This is another really good tangent. A while back I went to Japan. I lived there for a little bit by myself. At one point I worked in Imabari, which is in Shikoku, which is on the South Island of Japan. And I worked at a warehouse, for vintage clothes. And I lived alone there in a previously abandoned, small house in the middle of some rice fields. Every day I'd wake up alone and I'd take the bike into the office, do the old style 90s like punch cards because they don't like. Clock on digitally. Yeah. We'd do, like, stretches in the morning with everyone. The stretches that I showed you recently. I’d clean the office, and that'd be my five minutes of interaction for the day. I'd go to the warehouse and alone, I'd wash the clothes. And that was like basically, the whole day, every day for a month. Wow.

Asami: And. And then you go home alone.

Oscar: Yeah. Go home. And it was. Yeah. Just silent. 

That was definitely a structured point in time that worked day very structured. So I'd come home and make sure I cooked a really nice meal for myself and like, see if I could get like the most tasty meal I could. And also having baths again, of course. But then sometimes I'd go on a bike ride all the way down to the archipelago because there's an archipelago around there. But yeah, I think in that point in time, I found that structure and spontaneity, like I'd flick between the two of them. 

MX out

Marcus: What was that like for your mental health? Because like, for me, I feel like that would be so peaceful. And like, it's so nice.

Asami: Feels like a murakami novel or.

Marcus: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oscar: I don't know, I, I think I've always been, like, almost perpetually surrounded by people, like, I, I really value seeing my friends and, like, being connected with people. So I, I kind of knew that this was going to happen, and I voluntarily did it because I wanted to see like, oh, what would happen if I just didn't talk to anyone? Like, how do I cope with that? Yeah. So it was partially voluntary so I was prepared for it. And I had already been traveling alone for like a couple months before that, so not all that much had changed. I guess it was just like the magnitude of alone-ness. And it was not easy. Definitely was not easy. I'll say that for sure. 

Marcus: Interesting 

Oscar: And it's like, oh, that area of the countryside, there's no one lives there. Like.

Asami: So, I mean, when you cycle, you don't actually.

Marcus: Must be a little scary. 

Oscar: I saw one person my age or two people my age the entire month.

Marcus: Yeah. Wow.

Oscar: Yeah. Like everyone had moved out. It's crazy.

Asami: I'm like, Marcus. I'm like, that sounds wonderful.

Oscar: I'm so the opposite. Like, it was not all that fun. But I came to appreciate it though by the end of it. 

Marcus: Do you think that made you appreciate, like having people like to connect with more then.

Oscar: Yeah, I mean, I think it was a bit of both. It was like, being more appreciative of my friends in some ways. And then also like learning that, like how to just spend some time alone. Yeah. Like I think for people who spend all their time around people, it's hard to just be like, all right I get home. What do I do now. Yeah. And and just being okay with that, that was, that was like my lack of. Yeah. And I, I'd never really took the time to figure out how to be alone. Like what to do when you're alone, how to have fun alone. And I think so. Like after that I’m more of an introverted person. Or at least I enjoy, like, being alone sometimes, like, a lot more than I did before. Yeah. But, yeah.

MX sting 4

Asami: I think I want to also hear about the self-reflection question. Can we come back to that?

Oscar: Oh, yeah.

Asami: What do you do to self reflect and I don't know if you did it while you're in Japan too.

Oscar: Oh yeah. Writing that was my main thing when I was in Japan. Like I've got this notebook, I never fill up notebooks but I completely filled to the brim this notebook that I had, I kind of it's kind of like a mix between like a journal and just writing stuff. I sometimes I write not poetry, but just like stuff that doesn't make all that much sense. But like, you know, it gets out like the feelings that you're feeling. Yeah. I really liked doing that when I was there. And actually I read it a little bit of it a week ago and I was like, I'm pretty glad I did that, you know. Yeah. Because I could like get right back into where I was at in that moment. And how I was feeling in like a way that, you know, that you can't just do with memory.

Oscar: But yeah. Self-reflection. I think journaling is great. I usually only journal when I'm feeling really overwhelmed, though. Like, I don't know about you guys, but if I'm doing well, I'm not going to journal, like, I'm going to do something fun. Like, I don't find journaling all that fun in itself. Like it is fun, but it's just I would be rather doing something else, you know what I mean? 

Marcus: I get that

Oscar: So I'm only doing it when I'm overwhelmed, which is probably not the greatest, but it works enough for me. And it just helps me clear my mind, to be honest. Like, you can just sit there for hours thinking about all of this stuff and what's going on and like, try to trying to figure out what's happening. And then if you just write some sentences down, it like sort of resolves itself.

Marcus: Yeah.

Oscar: At least for me.

Asami: Like you just like a free flow writing rather than any prompts or anything. Just open the page.

Oscar: Open the page and just write. Almost like a mind dump, like what's going on. Sometimes it is just purely a mind dump. Like, it doesn't make sense, like if you read it back, but sometimes it's like just starting to explain, like, all right, this is what I'm doing. This is what I'm liking about it, what I'm not liking about it. I want to be doing this more. Why am I not doing this more things like that. Just trying to, like, figure out what's going on. Yeah, but if it's not that, again, like. I'm really a social person. Like having friends is like or some sort of support structure is like really important. You know, talking to friends is like, it doesn't have to be this thing where you just like, you go to your friend. I'm like, oh, I'm feeling really down, you know, let's talk about it. You can do that. Of course I can. Sometimes I do that, but it's like I actually prefer to be doing something or else there's too much pressure, you know what I mean? So on a weekly basis, I guess, or even sometimes monthly, depending on how I'm feeling, it's like I purposely plan an activity, with a friend that's kind of like passive, like you don't have to be doing all that much.

Marcus: Like a parallel play. Yeah.

Oscar: Like parallel play! Exactly.

Marcus: That’s my favorite thing to do.

Oscar: It's like, I don't know, like I played Jansa with my friend the other day. Yeah. If you know what that is, it's like a shuttlecock.

Asami: Oh, okay.

Oscar: Yeah. And then he's just like, I don't know, stuff usually just comes out naturally. Is like, oh, what have you been doing? And like, you know.

Marcus: Yeah.

Oscar: People talk about how they've been feeling what what's been going on with them. And like, then both of you get to unpack what what's been happening. Yeah. I think it's a healthy way of going about it.

Asami: Are you the one that always plans activity?

Oscar: No, no. Like I've got friends that, like the Jansa thing was almost all my other friend. I don't know, it's kind of just like we both. It's like a mutual thing. We both like, yeah, we need to do this. And then that happens I don't know. Yeah.

Asami: Do you do that? Marcus like plan activities. Rather than just like, okay, let's go for a coffee.

Marcus: It's just like stuff to look forward to, but, like, usually it would be like planning an event. So we would do something that's more active because, like, I haven't seen them in a while. My more passive stuff would probably just like we'll study together at uni. Yeah. But then like study and chat kind of, you know.

Asami: I like that. Wow I'm learning so much I feel like I'm always like, oh, let's have a coffee. Let's have a coffee.

Marcus: I don't think I've ever done that. Like, let's have a coffee.

Asami: really? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. All right. Okay. So you're talking about, like, social stuff, right? Yeah. And how I know what the benefits. But how do you know that it's effective? Like, what can you tell within you.

Oscar: If it's about, like, chatting with my friends about my problems or just, like, I don't know, chatting about their problems and, like, I don't know, just what's it called, spinning the yarn or if it's called, I think that's like benefit to me. I feel more clear about what's going on and I feel more okay with what's happening. I'm more clear about what I need to change or what I want to keep the same. Or, you know, everyone has these anxieties like, oh, is what I'm doing okay? Or is it normal, you know?

Asami: Yeah.

Oscar: I think you need an outside perspective to be like, yeah, I mean, I agree or disagree, you know what I mean? And I think like a lot of things for me is just like my friends being like, yeah, that's normal. Like I, that's, that's right. Like that happened to me the other day. I it's like and then you're like, oh, okay. It's not all that bad, you know. Yeah. It really does take away, I guess some of the bite of like, I don’t know feeling anxious or just generally whatever you are feeling, you know, we can get really up in our heads about stuff so.

Asami: And like So isolated. Yeah. Oh, my God, it's just me.

Oscar: Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So I definitely feel clearer after talking with people. And I think that's how I know that that's valuable to me.

Asami: And same as journaling. It's like, yeah, feeling of clarity?

Oscar: Yeah. Journaling. It's like, sometimes I feel clear about it. Sometimes it's just like I don't feel the need to think as much. It takes this pressure off of, like, having to always like, is everything okay? Or, like, I don't know, whatever you're thinking, you know, it's just like once you brain dump, you've got nothing else to say. You've finished the dump, you know, like it keeps stuff more clear.

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Asami: So anything else you want to add, Oscar?

Oscar: No, I don't really know. Yeah, I mean yeah.

Asami: Or Marcus questions you want to ask us?

Marcus: Not off the top of my head, but that was really interesting.

Asami: It was so interesting. Yeah, I think it was like the self-reflection was a big one. And the journaling. Yeah. And then like social, like keeping in touch with friends and really prioritizing social connection. 

Asami: The bath. I think they were the big themes that you kind of. Yeah. and like the balance doesn't always have to be balanced every single day.

Marcus: In the middle 

Asami: Yeah. So I think for people listening like, what's the reflective question for today. Your’s was so good.

Marcus: Yeah. I don't know.

Asami: I keep going back to what's your ocean?

Marcus: Yeah. That’s all I can think of.

Asami: It's like, what's your bath?

Marcus It's the same question.

Asami: But it's like the birth is like something about your culture as well. You're like, listen. Oh, you're Japanese. So therefore. Baths. So it's like, what's something that's so ingrained within you culturally somehow / helps you like / just feels wonderful. What's your bath? Yeah. What's your bath. We want to know. 

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So everyone listening. If you have an answer to that please let us know. You can find us on socials at Just Shapes and Sounds. Otherwise download this episode so you can refer back to Oscar's notes on your favorite streaming platform. Otherwise, we'll see you in the next episode. Thanks so much for listening.

Oscar: Woo!

This is a production from Shapes and Sounds. It’s hosted by Asami Koike, Marcus Lai and Oscar Abe, and produced by Yeo Choong. We’re proudly supported by the Victorian Department of Health’s Diverse Communities Program. All thoughts and ideas you hear are independently ours and our guests’.

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