The things we can't control. The Asian Mental Health Podcast Episode 13

Asami describes the alarming findings of the latest youth mental health research, Marcus explains how the pandemic has changed the brains of young people, and Oscar contemplates the effects of social media on our identities and values.

The transcript is available below.

All the support services mentioned in this episode can be found here.

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We’d love to hear your thoughts and ideas about Asian mental health. Find us online at ⁠@justshapesandsounds⁠ or ⁠justshapesandsounds.com⁠

This podcast is supported by the Victorian Department of Health via the Diverse Communities Program. All information provided is general information only and should not be used in lieu of professional advice.

Transcript:

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Shapes and Sounds acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the lands on which we’re recording and connecting with you from, the Wurundjeri Woi-wurrung people of the Kulin Nation and we pay our respects to Elders past and present.

Asami: Hi, Marcus. Hi, Oscar. Did you ever engage in mini discs? Like, do you know what I mean when I say mini disc?

Marcus: No.

Asami: Like a weird, tiny era of technology, I would say. And it's like between the CD and all the MP3 stuff, there was like a thing called a mini disc. And it was like a cassette. It was like a floppy disk, if that means anything to you. But it was like a CD. And and so it was like very durable. So you know how CD's can get scratched but mini discs are protected, so they kind of like function like.

Marcus: Yeah.

Oscar: I think I do know this.

Asami: Yeah?

Oscar: Yeah. I have a, had a PlayStation portable when I was a kid and they had these weird disks that were like very small. Yeah. They might be the same thing. No, no, I'm not going to guess. But yeah, they're so interesting.

Asami: Right? And I was just remembering, like, all these weird little things from the past. Like, what is it? Peer to peer, like music sharing and stuff like that that.

Marcus: I have no idea what that is. 

Asami: See, you’re confused and I’m confused. Essentially like we had we couldn't get music just on Spotify, right? Or Apple. It was like. You had to like illegally download it. But you also downloaded like viruses to your family computer. It's so. Strange. Right? And another beautiful part about the Internet back in the day is Myspace. So Myspace is a social platform that existed like pre Facebook. So it was the one before Facebook. And essentially it is a social network thing. Like you can make friends with other people, but it really focused on the aesthetics of your own profile. You had full control over every part. So it's not just like the colours that you can change, but you can change the font. You can change like the mouse cursor on your page. And then like when people visit your page, then the music that you choose plays. I don't know. It was this like a lot of control, obviously no advertising then too. I think one part of the conversation is like you had your top eight friends that you put on your profile and then there was like always drama about if you dropped one of those friends and all that kind of stuff.

Marcus: Oh so everyone would know.

Asami: So you can see what that would be like already. Right? Now when I look back, I feel like, it’s a Japanese word natsukashii but it’s like oh, so wholesome, you know I reminisce about the Myspace days. But I guess what I'm trying to say is like, that was the old Internet. And how different is it to the Internet of the now, right?

Oscar: Yeah. I mean, today's Internet, it's like not even remotely similar. Like, you know, nowadays we like, for example, Instagram or social media or anything like that, you kind of scroll through and the algorithm feeds you stuff. I guess you kind of do have control of what you like and what you dislike, but sometimes you still get random stuff, you know, like. Stuff that you don't. 

Marcus: So random.

Oscar: Yeah, yeah. I don't know what you're getting, but I'm getting weird stuff every so.

Marcus: Often minus, so random like and I even know where those, those come from like get ready with me for our first day of senior year and it's like all these girls that are very kind of getting ready for school and it's like. How did this happen? Like, how did this get on my for you page? Okay. Or it's like food. I like, I don't know, just random stuff, like stuff I would never think about that.

Asami: You would never be like, actively. Like a day in the life of someone getting ready for college.

Oscar: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Asami: It's such a bizarre change of events, I guess, that has evolved social media and you know, I think the starting conversation that we're having is really about that comparison, the maybe perhaps the innocence of the Internet back in the day versus like, you know, the thing that we live with, it's everywhere all around us all the time. And kind of talking to those points about how maybe like we're not really so much in control like of that, like just say the Myspace page, how you can control every part. Like that kind of sense of control isn't quite there anymore. Right. And that's what we're going to dive into today, not specifically the Myspace page, but the idea and how there's so many things and so many factors, not just social media, but so many other factors at play that really impact our mental health and that are out of our control.

Oscar: Yeah.

Marcus: It's tough.

MX AMH theme

Asami: So, this season we've spent a lot of time talking about the tangible day to day things that we do within the team and other people as well that we do to take care of our mental health and our well-being. And they're all the things that we do that are really within our control, right? You know, we're highlighting little strategies, things like to say journaling or breathwork or like naming our emotions as ways to help us to kind of ease any feelings of anxiety on a day to day basis. But it's really important to acknowledge that there are things that are making us feel anxious in the first place. You know, things like climate anxiety.

Oscar: Definitely. I think like climate anxiety is something that everyone in the last five, ten years of that feeling has really ramped up. Even the term I feel like I haven't really heard the word climate anxiety until like what, maybe 2 or 3 years ago.

Asami: That's true. It was always climate change.

Oscar: Yes, climate change is gonna change, but there is an effect on people and that's something that we have to acknowledge and it's not necessarily within our control. It's definitely not all within our control. I think sometimes it might be made out to be that way. And yes, there's definitely things we can do to be more sustainable and to, you know, put our part into protecting the environment. Yeah. But I do think that, you know, sometimes that can definitely be an over emphasis on, you know, the power of the individual or other individuals, responsibility, for that matter.

Asami: Do you mean like in terms of recycling and. Yeah, like choosing organic produce?

Oscar: Yeah, definitely. Like choosing organic produce. You know, some people can’t afford to choose organic produce. Some people have already got a really busy life and, you know, one week you might miss out on, you know, doing your recycling. But that doesn't mean that you have to feel horrible about it because realistically, there are much bigger actors in play. And I think just, you know, boiling everything down to the responsibility of the individual might not be the healthiest, almost realistic way of, you know, addressing the problem.

Asami: Yeah. Because we feel so much anxiety around that, too. Like, I'm not doing enough. And then you feel worse about that, too, and it kind of builds and builds and builds, right? Yeah.

Marcus: But I mean, not like all our fault. Like. Yeah, sometimes, like, you just have to have KFC. And, like, you just can't afford to getting anything else, you know? And you know how they say, like, if you wish to cut down on eating beef because it's like bad for what is it like ozone layer or whatever? Yeah, yeah. It's like, no, like some people can that's all they can afford and like, that's all they have time for. So like, obviously I think like a lot of people want to help the environment or a lot of people want to but can't because it's like they've been put in these situations where it's like, I'm just trying to survive and like put food on my table, you know?

Asami: So there's like, different. So many different levels.

Marcus: Yeah, right. Yeah.

Asami: And even I did see, I don't know how verified this is. This is just like an image that I saw, but it's like the carbon emissions of one very short, like private jet flight from L.A. to New York is like a hundred people's carbon emissions, like on just regular travel, you know, So the magnitude like on not a private jet, it's just like the magnitude of how much sway you have is like so different. I don't know if we're able to organise our brains in that way.

Oscar: Yeah, it's definitely complicated. Like trying to figure out where the responsibility lies is definitely difficult, but I guess my impression is that we might be putting a slightly in over an emphasis. You know, some people might be putting a bit of an overemphasis on the responsibility of individuals, especially considering, you know, what big corporations might be doing. You know, I might choose to not buy these case eggs, but, you know, that corporation still flourishes and produces these, you know, with growing profits each year.

Asami: Yeah. Like, do you mean like I boycott the this brand of eggs, but then, like. They're still profiting.

Oscar: The profit margins are still there. Yeah.

Asami: How many eggs do you eat Oscar?

Oscar: Maybe that's the problem I should just stop eating eggs.

Asami: Yeah. So. What we're really talking about is like there are so many things outside of our control and it's really important that obviously that we acknowledge them and that they exist and that hopefully, you know, you feel compelled to find ways to not perpetuate problems. But it's also really important to highlight that if that's causing you anxiety, that can be really stressful too. And it just adds and adds and adds. And maybe then things like your breathwork don't have any impact because the problem is so vast and massive. And I think that that's a really tricky place to leave people as well. So I just want to say that in this episode, what we're also going to talk about is one we're going to talk about like all the bad things in the world that also highlight that when it feels overwhelming. And if it does, that's totally okay that there are lots of services out there to support you. And and it's really important to reach out when you don't feel good about the state of the world.

Marcus: Yeah.

MX in - Just Because

Asami: So, to contextualise this for now, I bring up this conversation because this is something that was outlined in a recent Lancet psychiatry commission and The Lancet. If you don't know, it's like it's like the really famous journal. Would you say Marcus?

Marcus: Like, this is like, Yeah.

Asami: Like the fancy one.

Oscar: Like it's an academic journal. Yeah.

Marcus: A fancy one that gives a fancy vibe.

Asami: Yeah it gives a really fancy vibe. Like the Hermes of journals.

Marcus: But yeah, I really like I love it. 

Asami: All the academics get very happy. With The Lancet. Yeah.

Marcus: Okay.

Asami: So it just means, like, it's really important, right?

Marcus: Yeah. Yeah.

Asami: And so they just recently did a commission into youth mental Health, so the whole journal was about youth mental health. And essentially they found that there is, quote, an alarming surge in mental ill health amongst young people. And most importantly, they highlighted the reason that there was this alarming surge is because of all of these things that we're talking about, like climate change, economic insecurity, intergenerational inequality, political instability and social media or like unregulated social media. You know, I feel anxious just saying those words. Another interesting finding was that this phenomenon of mental ill health was occurring like everywhere. So it doesn't matter what country the young person is from, but also it really affects people differently. Like, for example, in South East Asia, young people might be more concerned about climate change compared to other countries that aren't feeling those. Impacts.

Oscar: And is that because that they might be facing the impacts more compared to other countries.

Asami: Or Yeah, that's it. Maybe it's like much more visceral, right? Another name that's important to remember. And youth mental health especially in Australia is Professor Patrick McGorry. The big boy of youth mental health. I can say that that like. Really important person is what I'm trying to say. He's specifically said like this is the public health threat, like the greatest public health threat that we're facing right now in these times. 

MX out

So my question to you both, as two young people who have not experienced the beautiful innocence of the early Internet, like what do you think about this? Like, firstly, do you agree? Do you see this too? Yeah.

Marcus: That's so interesting because like, okay, I can, I guess, speak from more of like a theory side and like give the facts of like how this is such a big threat to, I don't know, like the whole world, I guess. Like if you think about Covid and like all of the people and like young children. No, no, not young children, like teens and adolescents who were stuck in Covid being indoors. Like from a developmental perspective, like teenage years and like your sort of early adulthood is meant for you to explore and like, take risks and like, you sort of learn a lot about yourself and like develop those connections helps your brain to mature and everything through that exploration and like risk taking. So I guess like coming out of Covid, no one kind of had that chance.

Asami: Yeah.

Marcus: Like you're just kind of like losing on all of that learning and like development that you should be having as like a teenager or an adolescent. Also, there are different parts in your brain that do different things, so there are more emotional parts and those parts develop earlier. And so if you think about like oh teenagers are like, they're like so impulsive and like they like want to seek risks and everything That's because those emotional parts of your brain develop earlier, earlier than the parts of your brain that help to control or like manage that impulse. So when you're in that period of your life and you're sort of stuck in Covid, obviously everyone's getting so much more anxious. You're like making those areas of your brain so much more hyperactive. That fundamentally will change how your brain is wired. So in coming out, yeah, there is very likely like actual differences in how our brains are wired. Maybe they're more like likely to be anxious and like have these volatile emotions. Yeah. So.

Marcus: Yeah, like.

Asami: The, the front of the brain it’s not as well exercised.

Marcus: Yes. Not as well. Yeah. Yeah it's not as well. Exercised is not as well developed so it's not as good at managing like anxiety or anything. Like obviously that's all speculative still, but it's a fact that different parts of your brain develop at different times.

Oscar: Right? So, so what you're saying is that these people's brains, they were still developing and in that period of time we had a big, you know, Covid. Pandemic that fundamentally changes our future development as well.

Marcus: Yep. 100%. Like I think like even just going back to like that risk taking, but like without that exploration, like you might lose a lot of knowledge or like wisdom that you might leverage on when you're older because you sort of lose out on the identity that you should have developed in that period of your time. When you're exploring, you're like learning about yourself, going about like what's right or wrong, whatever helps you to develop that sort of maturity. Then when you're older and like as your brain like cognitive abilities decline, then you have the knowledge you gained from those exploratory periods of your life that you can like use. Right?

Oscar: Right. To make judgements and decisions. Yeah.

Marcus: Yeah. Wow. So it's like important for the growth essentially, is what I was saying.

Asami: So it's like biologically, anatomically, there are things that have probably.

Marcus: Yeah.

Asami: Been impacted.

Oscar: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, my guess is like brain rot.  Like. That sounds like. Exactly.

Marcus: Maybe that's why everyone likes to brain rot now. Because maybe this is how our brains are wired.

Oscar: Conveniently, the term has conveniently come out just a couple of years after Covid. Maybe. Maybe. I mean, yeah, if we're just like talking about, you know, more generally what you were saying, like, are these effects pronounced or can I see them? I think, yeah, it's hard to tell. Like, you know, there's more been an increasing awareness about mental health issues and things like that over over time. And so when you're kind of comparing populations or comparing, you know, especially young populations, mental health, they should be or I guess I'm guessing that you should be having more diagnosis or diagnoses, diagnoses of young people with mental health issues. So that might be part of the increase, but equally awareness.

Marcus: Yeah, yeah.

Oscar: Yeah. I don't know. That's my guess. Yeah.

Marcus: Yeah.

Oscar: Also, I think like, no, there's definitely weird things that we've never been like young people have never had to face before that, you know, people are facing like I think social media like is a really strange force that we haven't seen a similar sort of thing historically. Yeah. Yeah, Historically, like is there anything been connecting every single person that you need to connect with on a day to day basis, 24 hours a day? Like, I don't know. Seems like something that could definitely impact our mental health that might be contributing to this. And I suspect so, Yeah.

MX in - Coherent

Asami: You know, every generation has challenges. Every generation has something that has deeply in fact, impacted them, right? And so then it's like, is it worse? Is it not worse? I think I think people always play this game, right?

Oscar: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it definitely is. And you can't really tell until the time's past like. But, you know, I don't know. Maybe. Maybe there is really a young youth mental health spike caused by these issues, and especially because they seem like such existential issues. I mean, I guess you could say that for each generation before us. But yeah.

Asami: It’s confusing.

Oscar: Yeah, Yeah. It's definitely confusing.

MX out

[BREAK]

Asami: We've definitely established that there's a lot of things going on in the world, lots of external factors at play contributing to the the surge, I guess, in mental ill health amongst young people. But one thing, one thing I think we should definitely touch on is this idea around unregulated social media and its impact on mental health. But Oscar, I know you've got some really good thoughts about social media. So I'm going to ask you.

Oscar: Yeah, I mean, it's it's. Hard to say specifically. We're kind of living in the time right now, so it's hard to really grasp what's going on. But I think there's definitely some really interesting conversations about what's going on and people trying to figure out like, what is this thing that we're living in with this social media age and how that really affects us. It's it's I think it's very tangible that it's definitely making an effect on us. I think that's seen through a lot of people who use social media. I think we're all pretty aware of it at this point. You know, there's even the term brain rot. I mean, there's nothing healthy about the term brain, rot? So like I think we can you know, I think there's a bit of a general consensus that there's something that is not healthy about the way that social media is operating. And I think, you know, the more you think about it, there are so many different ways that you could break it down. 

Something I've been thinking about recently is about identity and the individualistic nature of that in the social media age. And what I mean by that is like, you know, when you're on Instagram or something with an algorithm like Tik Tok or something like that, you'll be seeing content that is fed to you by this algorithm, right? They see what you like, see what you might like, and they'll feed you information. But in doing so, I think that you get exposed to certain things that you might not have been exposed to that do shape your identity, right? 

MX in - wunderkind

You previously had to go out and be like, All right, I listen to drum and bass. I'm going to read a drum and bass magazine and you find out more about drum and bass, and then that's how you go about it. Now it's like, I go on TikTok. I'm interested in drum and bass. I get a couple of videos about it. Now I'm on this very hyper specific pool of like information about techno scenes, and then next thing you know, you're talking about culture, you're talking about clothes, and people have like become these really small niches, right? There is like the death of subgenre. I feel like recently with all of these things where it's like people are simultaneously destroying the walls of having subgenres by having sort of this ultimate access to any genre that you want or that culture you want. I guess what I'm trying to say is you can find a very hyper specific interest point and there's a community around that. Do you know what I mean? In a way that never used to be possible.

Asami: But it's also individualistic because back in the day it's like, you know, like if you like drum and bass, then your friends might also share that interest and then you're doing things together around a particular interest. But now the algorithm is like making you split into all different genres.

Oscar: Yes, yes, yes. Right. Yeah. And you could say that's a good thing. You could say that's a negative thing. But either way, it's definitely shaping your identity. You know, having something that is a force essentially driven on attention deciding your identity is something that we haven't really seen. And what does that what is the implications of that especially considering that these  these forces are being driven because of advertising, right. These companies need to make money and that's why the algorithm is there is so that you keep engaged on the app so that you can get more ad revenue for them, etc., etc.. I wonder how that actually does affect our identity. Is our identity to become more and more like a consumer? I don't know. Like that is my guess that we are inadvertently becoming like trained. Yeah, trained to buy products. And we're also viewing others as products as well.

MX out

I think there's this thing that I've been thinking about a lot recently, which is like we have become voyeurs into other people's lives, right? We're seeing into every little corner of other people's lives. And and I think while we look at other people's lives, we can actually become a bit disengaged with our own life. We can feel pressures about our own life, like we should become more like this or we should become less like this, or even just vicariously looking at this sort of stuff like maybe twitch streaming or something like that. You're living vicariously through the people that you're watching, right? Instead of living your own life, you're watching these people live the life that you might be interested in, right? Yeah, It's this really strange thing because it then heightens for at least me like anxiety where you all you're watching people do things that you wish you could do or things that you know, like there's so many things that you just didn't know that you could be doing or you should be doing and people telling you that you should be doing this, you know, just.

Asami: Or knowing way too much about someone.

Marcus: Yeah, it's.

Asami: Like this random person, but you just know the intricacies of their life.

Marcus: Yeah.

Asami: It’s weird.

Oscar: It's all just being dumped online. Like people are dumping their inner thoughts that never used to be, like, spoken so freely online. And it really does just like add more and more and more to like, you know, it can add to your inner thoughts as well. Like, you know, should I be worrying about this thing right now? Like, or is this a red flag or is this a, you know, blank? You know, there's so many people voicing these, like, opinions. That is like, should that be my opinion? Do I agree with this?

Marcus: So do you think people are, like, losing their sense of identity then? Like, people are just becoming so easily influenced? It's like. And I just keep thinking about, like, that tiktok. I don't know if it's a thought trend, but it's like, that one friend whose Instagram story looks like this and they do like they one one day they go on a hike, next day they go to a techno event, next day they do painting and stuff. So it's like that to me is just like such a common thing that like, everyone's doing everything because everyone wants to, like, I don't know, like just be like everyone else but them. They just don't have their own sense of identity. It's like there's nothing niche about anyone yet.

Oscar: It's almost like. No shade on anyone in particular. But like, people really like being an individual, like they they want to be the most unique person. I think this is like what social media really is about. It's like the people who become more popular or you find that interesting yourself. The people that you watch are these very, very specific individuals and almost you feel you can feel a pressure to become even more like an individual. You know what I mean? Like, I have to have the most something blank. Esoteric view on this or like music genre or, you know, whatever it is. Yeah, I think that there is a pressure to do with that, and I think that that really shapes our identity in a way that hasn't been seen before. Yeah.

Asami: So it makes me think of this thing that I watched and they, it was like a Ted. Talk about social media. This is when I was really trying to convince myself for a detox. And then what they were saying was like, okay, so just say the social media itself. Maybe that's not such a bad thing to look at images and things, right? But it's kind of like, what is the message and the lesson that it keeps teaching us? So for example, like Twitter or X, it's like you must say, the most shocking thing in the most succinct way. Like there is no space for nuance because it's like limited, right? Character wise. And then something like Snapchat with like, you know how they have that thing where like, you have to keep up your messages every single day. So then it teaches you that sending like nonsense to your friend is more important than a deep connection.

Marcus: Oh My God. People, like, they just like, would send faces with their faces. And it's like, I don't need to see this.

Asami: Like, just to keep up that streak. Yeah. It teaches you something about relationships. And then Instagram is like it teaches you more about the number of likes and like a vast number of strangers versus like, your three friends that would actually care that you went somewhere.

Marcus: Right?

Asami: And so it's like it's it's changing our values as well, which is so freaky.

Oscar: I have this weird thought about this. It's so it kind of ties into that voyeuristic aspect that I was talking about before, but I think. We know that we look at other people's profiles and we then have this subtle knowledge that people will look at our profiles in the same way. Right. Right. So then there's this weird view where you are producing when you are like making a profile or you're curating something, you are producing something with full knowledge that someone else is watching you. 

Marcus: 100% 

Oscar: Right. And I think that that is something really, really strange. Like it's another level of like social awareness. Like if I feel like. Like you're disconnected with an actual interaction with a human being, it's like you're now three, four steps away. Like, I know that you know that you made that post. Knowing that I would look at that post. You know what I mean?

Marcus: That is so interesting, actually. Makes you think about how I use my. Instagram. Because like, obviously, like, everyone's like really obsessed with likes and I feel like no one's is for me or like, my friends. I don't think anyone's really obsessed with like, my God, I got 300 likes. Now I don't think you care in that way. Yeah, I definitely have stopped caring about that for a really long time. But like every time I make a post, I still think like, I'm going to go and see what it's like from the other perspective. Like, let me look at my feed. From someone else's. Phone so I still care, but it's like in a different way. Like, how does it look? Yeah, How does it look on the phone? I'm just seeing.

Oscar: Yeah. And I think that's also something to do with the identity part. It's like we define our identities knowing that other people are watching us craft them. Right? Yeah. Whereas I feel like previously, you know, a lot of what you consider your identity has been, you know, what you inherently want to be like. Do you know what I mean? It's not about, like how other people see you necessarily. I mean, definitely it has been to an extent, but a lot of it's to do with, what do I actually like? What what what music do I like? I'm like, Is this what I'm into? And some people will like, you know, like curate certain things about themselves so that, you know, maybe something that doesn't fit the norm won't be put on their profile for me, you know, And that ways, you know, identities are being shaped by things that aren't ourselves. You know, we don't have the control over that. And that's also driven a lot by anxiety, You know, like, how do I fit in? Kind of, Yeah.

Marcus: Yeah.

Asami: Like, do I fit in and comparison? And I think there's no doubt that that drives like deep, like real world consequences, like just say, disordered eating and, you know, those kind of corners of the Internet and even like, like driving, like, political violence and. Yeah, yeah. It just gets so full on, right? Like the real world impacts and how they impact people's mental health is so intense. And I'm getting anxious. It's, it's a really interesting conversation but yeah, like, I don't know, there's just such a vast array of problems and it's also kind of like out of our control too. Like as you were both talking about, like now social media isn't a computer that you use, but it's just an extension of your arm, like it's always there, right?

MX in - Heart Beam

Asami: Okay, So we're talking a lot about the things outside of our control. And, you know, when it gets too much, it's a good idea to seek help, like external support right. But how do you know when it's too much, you know, and like, what does that look like?

Marcus: Yeah, I think for me personally, it's like when I feel like stuck and I've even just like mentally stuck, like physically, like I feel unwell. Like it's like a paralysing feeling. Like I just, like, sit and I can't do anything. It's like losing motivation. Yeah. It's like I get a physical feeling that it's like something's not right and I don't feel good.

Asami: Like a sinking stomach feeling or like, everything.

Marcus: Yeah, everything. Yeah. It's like, ah, like a brain fog.

Oscar: Kind of like. I definitely relate to that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think, like, a brain fog is definitely for me. Like when I'm too unclear about stuff and everything is kind of foggy and you can't really think about, you know, what you should be thinking about or what you're even thinking about. I think that's for me, when I'm like, Yeah, I probably need to do something about this.

Asami: Yeah, I totally get that. And it's almost like that paralysing thing that you're talking about. Like, it's like the problem is so large, and then it's like, well, I can't do anything, therefore I'm not going to do anything, you know, like, nothing at all. Like nothing is going to help. So therefore, I'm just completely stuck and I don't know what's next.

Marcus: Mm.

MX out

Asami: If you're listening to this and if you are also like deeply impacted by things that are happening around you and you're doing all these things that are within your control, but then you're hitting your limits, you're just like, okay, this is hard. I feel like existential dread. It's really important to know that there are services out there that can support you too and and to seek out support and seek out help. Like that's why these services exist, right? We have a practitioner list on our website, but we also have a link to a whole range of external services that are free as well that are available, especially if you're in Australia, and if you're a young person or a student without the income to pay for private practitioners as well, this list is really handy. So we'll link it in the show notes. 

But maybe let's just talk through like three of the services that are available. Like, I think headspace is a really important service to talk about in Australia. Like, have you both like, do you know about headspace?

Marcus: Yeah, yeah. It's good for young people.

Asami: Exactly right. And so essentially it is a free service and there's you kind of go to a headspace, they're located in all different councils and different areas. So just Google it and find your closest one. And then you kind of see something called an intake worker. So they kind of talk to you and work out what needs you might have, and then they might refer you on to psychologists who again will bulk bill, which means it's free. And they're all trained in like youth mental health as well. If you are an international student, some of the headspaces can still see you. So you just need to kind of ask, you know, and talk about your insurance and all that kind of stuff. They also have an online, like a…

Marcus: Chat room. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Asami: That's the thing. Yeah. So you can engage anonymously as well. So that's headspace. Yeah. Lifeline Marcus do you know much about Lifeline.

Marcus: So it's more like if you're experiencing like acute or like get very, very distressed in the moment, then you can call them or they also have like a chat room as well, like just tell them and someone like a crisis supporter. Will like, have a chat with you. Yeah, they're all trained. It's free. 24 seven. Yeah, it's really good.

Asami: So you call them when you're in, like crisis. Like emergency. Yeah, like, not emergency emergency, but really unwell.

Marcus: Yeah. Yeah.

Asami: Okay. And maybe the last service are the uni support services as well. So all universities will have a wellbeing like counselling and wellbeing service and you can just look through your student portal to find it. But these are free.

Marcus: Yeah, they're free. But there's just a cap on the number of sessions per year.

Asami: Okay. Okay.

Marcus: Yeah.

Asami: Like three or like six. it depends.

Marcus: Probably at Melbourne Uni at six, but other places, maybe ten. I don't know.

Asami: Yeah. Yeah.

Marcus: It's something like three. Like at least five.

Asami: Okay. Okay. Yeah. Above three. Less than ten. Yeah. And you get to speak to either a counsellor, a psychologist or a social or mental health social worker, right?

Marcus: Yeah. Yeah.

Asami: So definitely I think it's important to access all these resources that are available to you.

Oscar: And which ones would you go for? What? So like out of those three, who's like, who is going to which ones?

Asami: Yeah, good question. I think like Lifeline is the one, you know, like you're really not doing well and you feel like kind of at fear for your own safety. That's Lifeline or of course your emergency services like 000. And then your uni and your headspace like you're not in immediate crisis, you know, because you might have to wait until you can get an appointment or you might see an intake worker at headspace, but then you might wait two weeks to see a psychologist or something like that. So not as urgent. And yeah, they’re the ones that are free, which I think in Australia we're lucky to have services like that.

Marcus: Yeah.

Asami: And they're trying, they're really trying for culturally-responsive practice too.

Marcus: Yeah.

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Asami: Yeah. So I think we've gone on a on a big journey. Hey. Yeah, I think we should summarise what we discussed.

Marcus: We should.

Oscar: Kind of like intake of everything.

Asami: Yeah. We started Myspace. Yep.

Oscar: We went to climate anxiety. Yeah.

Asami: Wow. Okay.

Marcus: And then brain stuff.

Oscar: Yeah, the brain stuff.

Marcus: Yeah.

Asami: Like development. Yeah. How? It's actually impacted young people's brain development.

Marcus: It's like a biological fact. So, yeah. Well, any sort of peace to anyone, you know. But you are probably experiencing something at a biological level that you can’t change.

Asami: That is just like a gentle offering. Marcus.

And then we spoke about social media.

Marcus: Yes. Yeah.

Asami: We didn't talk about like bots and things that.

Oscar: Oh.

Asami: Pulling things.

Oscar: Yeah. That's also a whole that's looking at the whole in itself.

Asami: That’s another season.

Marcus: Yeah.

Asami: And so then I guess what we're trying to do overarching is just highlight when it comes to your mental health. There are lots of things within your control that you can do to help you function and just get about your day in a world that is pretty wild out there, right? Like, you still have things within your control that can help you to keep going on a day to day basis. But there are so many things outside of our control. And when those things feel too much, when you just hit your limit, that's when it's time to seek out some services. And we've listed a few for you and we'll put everything in the show notes as well. I think that's it. Anything you want to add?

Marcus: I don't think so.

Oscar: I hope everyone's all right. That was a very intense everywhere conversation.

Marcus: Yeah.

Asami: Well we got there in the end. All right. Thanks, everyone. 

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So please make sure that you like and follow and download this episode on your favourite streaming platform. Yeah. If you've been thinking about these themes too, maybe you'd like to share this episode or follow us on Instagram at Just Shapes and Sounds. Talking about social media. Let's connect. Here you go. But otherwise, thanks to you both for your insights and we'll see you in the next episode.

Oscar: See you guys. 

This is a production from Shapes and Sounds. It’s hosted by Asami Koike, Marcus Lai and Oscar Abe, and produced by Yeo Choong. We’re proudly supported by the Victorian Department of Health’s Diverse Communities Program. All thoughts and ideas you hear are independently ours and our guests’.

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